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Temp Ban Ban Appeal: JusticeForSom3

JusticeForSom3

JusticeForSom3

In-game Name JusticeForSom3

Have you cheated before? No

What's your side of the story as to why you were banned? 2D temp ban for shooting into Uncap.

Why should we lift your ban? 1. First kill shown was outside of Uncap, and not against the rules.
2. Your rule two explicitly permits enemy kills for these situations:
"Don't attack the enemy's uncappable base (main base). If they fire out you can return fire."

The video clearly shows mortars being fired at the time and location of the kill; the kill was even of a support player.
I attacked the area specifically to clear mortars and beacons that were placed there.

Kick reason (from Battlelog)

I have checked and verified that I am not banned at https://bf4db.com Yes

I have checked and verified that I am not banned at https://battlefield.agency Yes
 
BigBadBagOfSwag

BigBadBagOfSwag

Staff member
-bZ- Member
BF4 Admin
You’re correct, the first kill was in the clear.

However, the issue with attacking uncap is that mistakes can occur. You have a history of attacking uncap. It would be in your best interest to make more of an effort of following our ingame rules.

If you don’t attack uncap, you don’t run the risk of making a mistake. Subsequent bans will be much longer in length.

BF4 Server Rules (2020)

Battlefield 4 Server Rules These rules apply to all of our BF4 servers as of April 2020. There are significant changes from our rules in the past in that there are far fewer rules, and for the most part it's everything goes outside of what's listed here. Our admins operate on a point system...
banzore.com
 
JusticeForSom3

JusticeForSom3

The second kill was also in the clear.
You're temp banning me here for two kills that are not against your rules.

I have no history of attacking uncap. This is the first report ever filed against me.

The erroneous "history" you're referring to, was of a single kill (of you personally) under very similar circumstances. You admin killed me for it at the time. It happened months ago.
I killed you with a 320 while capping A flag, after having just taken lmg fire and seeing smoke from the uncap hallway you were coming from.
It was the furthest thing from a dirty play.

I play in this server nearly every day; I have thousands of hours of ethical play in BZ servers.

What is shown here in the video of this report are two legal kills; why would anyone be temp banned for this?
 
BigBadBagOfSwag

BigBadBagOfSwag

Staff member
-bZ- Member
BF4 Admin
They aren’t legal kills. It is recommended to only engage targets in uncap if you have seen they have already shot or used equipment. In this case, you killed a player who had just spawned and was in the process of running out, twice.

If you cannot wrap your head around that fact, your time here will be short.
 
JusticeForSom3

JusticeForSom3

The first kill was not in uncap.

The second kill was in uncap. The enemy team was firing a mortar from that exact location. The video shows the mortar deployed and firing.
I killed a support player in uncap, while in the process of clearing mortars and beacons that were placed there.
 
BigBadBagOfSwag

BigBadBagOfSwag

Staff member
-bZ- Member
BF4 Admin

BF4 Server Rules (2020)

Battlefield 4 Server Rules These rules apply to all of our BF4 servers as of April 2020. There are significant changes from our rules in the past in that there are far fewer rules, and for the most part it's everything goes outside of what's listed here. Our admins operate on a point system...
banzore.com

Please review the rules above, if you see a player shoot or use equipment you are allowed to engage that single player, not the entire team.
 
JusticeForSom3

JusticeForSom3

BigBadBagOfSwag said:
Please review the rules above, if you see a player shoot or use equipment you are allowed to engage that single player, not the entire team.
Click to expand...

I reviewed your rules before filing this appeal. I directly quoted them in my first post. I honor the server rules. My issue is the rule isn't clear, it isn't enforced as your explaining, and I disagree with your claim that I have a history of attacking uncap, and that I deserve a temp ban instead of a warning.

"Don't attack the enemy's uncappable base (main base). If they fire out you can return fire."

The "they" in the above rule is in reference to the "the enemy" which can mean the set of all enemy players or a single player, neither is mutually exclusive. It means both simultaneously.

As the rule is governed in the server, it refers to the team. A relatable example is an all cap scenario in Metro. Any player spawning in their base would expect to be under fire, whether they had equipment deployed or not. No report for UNCAP kills in this scenario would be taken seriously.

The spirit of the rule, which I think your above post is hinting at, I agree with completely. No one should expect to be able to attack players inside locker A uncap because a mortar was firing in outside A uncap. In the uncap kill shown in the video, I was returning fire at the area in which they were firing out of. I wasn't attacking their entire team.

The reason given for a temp ban instead of a warning is that I have a history of attacking uncap. I have never been reported before for attacking uncap; the only history I can think of is the aforementioned kill of you, BigBadBagOfSwag. I killed you in uncap with a 320 after you deployed smoke - shouldn't this count as "using equipment" in your post above? I tried making this exact point in all chat when it happened. If I recall the event correctly, I wasn't given any further explanation of the rules such that I could change future behavior. How then could this event be used as the establishment of my history of attacking uncap?
I don't care about this - it's water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned; I only bring it up because I can't think of any other event involving me attacking uncap.

I disagree with a temp ban for my infraction; I don't know why a warning could be issued, and a further explanation of the rules (as given above) wouldn't be the first step.
 
JusticeForSom3

JusticeForSom3

Something weird about my last, reposting here.

You obviously know the player who posted that report. He only plays Pearl, he only fires bipod lmg or mortar from spawn.

I killed him twice as he looked through the scope of a bipod'd lmg; wouldn't this count as deploying equipment?

I didn't even know this report existed.
 
JusticeForSom3

JusticeForSom3

I thought this thread was nearly resolved, but here I go again, down the rabbit hole.

I guess I should start by offering my apologies. I thought this ban was a continuation of a personal grudge against me- it appears this is not the case.

I'll never understand what there is to gain by allowing players to weaponize the rules this way. You must know these players never leave spawn. What would happen to your server's populations if all players played this way? Your servers would empty.

I'm shown on video clearing their deployed mortars and bipod LMGs from spawn. PlanoPete is mounted and searching for targets - he is an active, offensive threat. These two players, PlanoPete and his squadmate AD_slayer only play this way. The spend all game preying on players from the safety of their spawn; every regular BZ2 player has experienced getting farmed by them.

This gets into a philosophical debate about the spirit of the rules. In my mind, the spirit of the uncap rule is to protect defenseless players. A player searching for targets is not defenseless.
I don't know the rules couldn't be applied this way, in the above case, given the players history.
 
BigBadBagOfSwag

BigBadBagOfSwag

Staff member
-bZ- Member
BF4 Admin
JusticeForSom3 said:
What would happen to your server's populations if all players played this way? Your servers would empty.
Click to expand...

Well, we'd probably have servers filled with players that stick solely to uncap so population would be fine. Thankfully that won't ever be the case because 90% of players find that strategy to be too boring. That said, UCAVs and Mortars can turn the tide of a round when used correctly. There used to be rules against using equipment in uncap but that was changed into what it is now, a balance of two extremes.

When players capture sufficient video evidence of rule violators, the argument of "that's all they do all round anyway" in regards to attacking uncap has no weight.
It is not difficult to simply not target the enemies uncap. Once a player fires out of uncap, feel free to engage them if you're attempting to capture the flag closest to their spawn. Until you see them do so, you run the risk of a temporary ban if you assume that they had already shot or used equipment such as a MAV.

You are shown on video attempting to eliminate an enemy player / mortar and end up killing a player who had not shot out or used equipment yet. He warned you prior to the kill in chat about watching your fire. Additionally, in the prior complaint you are shown targeting uncap to kill a player who had also not shot out or used equipment. Aiming down sights is not considered to be fair game. Using a bipod does not make a player fair game, neither does going prone or using crouch.

If you encounter a situation in which you aren't sure of where it falls within our rules, don't hesitate to ask a question about it. That being said, you've had our stance on uncap explained several times so any subsequent issue regarding uncap will result in a much longer ban.

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As a side note, we also punish players who participate in revenge teamkills or griefing. If you catch a player in violation of our rules, record them in the act and provide that video evidence to us in the form of a forums complaint. Taking matters into your own hands is not tolerated.
 
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