A 'wolfsangel' is not a Nazi symbol

[-bZ-LongTrang1]

My good friend @Covert8645 recently posted about the Eastern European Wolfsangel and the mistaken belief that this ancient symbol is a Nazi symbol.

While the Nazis did indeed use the symbol, just like the swastika both symbols predate the advent of the Nazi Party by some thousands of years.

The wolfsangel symbol is a simplified representation of the type of hook that was used by wolf hunters to kill wolves.

Here are a couple actual wolf hooks:



Here are the examples that Covert posted:



In recent years the Russians in particular have had their panties in a knot because the Ukrainian Azov battalion and a few other lesser known groups have used this ancient symbol of wolf hunters in their iconography.

Of note here is the fact that the letter "Z" does not occur in the Cyrillic alphabet.

Therefore when you see the symbol on Russian armored vehicles it is not a letter "Z" but in fact it is a wolfsangel.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

Covert also listed this runic symbol as a Nazi symbol:



The same symbol is also used in Soviet and Russian military units which demonstrates that while the Nazis may have used the symbol the symbol itself is not of Nazi origin:

Here are a couple current Russian unit insignia that use the runic sun symbol:




Just posting this in support of why Banzore does not police symbols that are not exclusively Nazi symbols.

 

[Sabretooth-Ninja]

I learnded!

 

[-bZ-LongTrang1]

It's also a fine time to point out that I enjoy poking certain sensitive types with my use of the Columbia Sportswear logo as my avatar.

According to Columbia Sportswear and their adherents the logo is explained thusly:

Columbia is one of those brands, that value their history and keeps using the iconic symbols, created for them at the beginning of their existence, as the main part of the visual identity. The brand, founded in 1938, used a simple wordmark until the introduction of the geometric emblem in 1978. It was a rhombus, composed of eight equal rectangles, which aimed to represent the woven textile.

See? It's not an eeebil swastika, it's just a harmless rhombus. Nope, not a swastika. Not at all.

But pardon me if I'll laugh my ass off at especially news reporters who will get all breathless because some twerp at a junior high school scrawled a swastika in a bathroom stall all while they're proudly wearing what is quite obviously a swastika. And usually on live television.

Oh, and my (utterly insincere) apologies to anyone reading this who owns Columbia gear and is now realizing they paid good money to wear a swastika as a status symbol.

 

[s_h_a_n_k_0]

TL;DR:

1) Wolfsangel look like Z. Z exist before Nazis. Socially acceptable to still use today.

2) Swastika look like 卐. 卐 exist before Nazis. Not socially acceptable to still use today.

3) People are sensitive because I use symbol that I think looks like 卐.

 

[MiddleButton]

Try googling "kid on a nazi bike" and you will see that iconic video. Apparently, some of the people from India are still confused about the forbidden historical events.

 

[Covert]

But in the context of it's use, as in his AZOV cosplay... it's neo-Nazi battalion... it wasn't a historical and hippy-hugging symbol.

 

[PandaExpress293]

2) Swastika look like 卐. 卐 exist before Nazis. Not socially acceptable to still use today.

Context matters. If you're just using the symbols by themselves, then it'll most likely be okay. If you put it at an angle or accompany it with other racist propaganda, then obviously you'd get what you deserve.

But in the context of it's use, as in his AZOV cosplay... it's neo-Nazi battalion... it wasn't a historical and hippy-hugging symbol.

The reason why his isn't enforced is because it does not contain the black/white sun as noted in the actual examples or other hate symbols.

At BA the admins came to the conclusion that azov by itself was a bit of a reach for a ban and was decided to be out of our jurisdiction and left up to individual server admins' to enforce. Which I'll state does not reflect each staff member's views.

Personally I feel if your emblem even remotely supports that ideology that you should be removed.

 

[-bZ-LongTrang1]

But in the context of it's use, as in his AZOV cosplay... it's neo-Nazi battalion... it wasn't a historical and hippy-hugging symbol.

What's funny is how the Russians use the Azov as a justification for their invasion of Ukraine in 2014 when the Azov didn't even exist prior to that invasion!

Worse yet, the overwhelming majority of Azov fighters are Russian-speaking ethnic Russians...supposedly the people Putin wants to "protect". Doesn't seem to me that they want to be protected by Russia.

Azov started as a local militia in response to the Russian invasion and in the absence of Ukrainian forces. Lots of young men joined up and plenty of them were probably gamers beforehand and I hate to say it, but the gaming community seems to have thing for Nazi iconography.

Azov definitely has some fascist sympathies. But prior to the Russian invasion no one gave a shit about them.

In any case, they're busy killing Russian invaders and until this war ends I personally don't GAF if they run around saying "Heil Hitler" all the live long day so long as they're fighting and bleeding for their country.

Going back to the wolfsangel, it's a wolfsangel. Azov uses it and so does Russia.

We see lots of guys with the Russian "Z" on their BF4 avatars.

If we ban the Azov for using the wolfsangel I'd say it's a safe bet we'll ban EVERYONE who uses it. That's going to hurt a lot more Russian fanbois than it will the few Azov supporters we see.

 

[PandaExpress293]

We see lots of guys with the Russian "Z" on their BF4 avatars.

The Z in either white or the orange/black ribbon style is bannable by BA though, because it's illegal to display those in the EU.

 

[-bZ-LongTrang1]

2) Swastika look like 卐. 卐 exist before Nazis. Not socially acceptable to still use today.

You should probably avoid Hindus, Buddhists, Native Americans, and etc. who still use it and consider it a holy symbol. Their use of it has nothing at all to do with the bunch of racist douchebags from eighty years ago.

 

[-bZ-LongTrang1]

The Z in either white or the orange/black ribbon style is bannable by BA though, because it's illegal to display those in the EU.

Works for me.

 

[FunkyForReal]

The Z in either white or the orange/black ribbon style is bannable by BA though, because it's illegal to display those in the EU.

That sucks since the EU bans and restricts everything even criticism of EU

 

[PandaExpress293]

That sucks since the EU bans and restricts everything even criticism of EU

In some cases yes, but in this case I think it's a fair decision. That being said, BA is a EU (German) based organization so it makes sense they'd follow EU laws.

 

[FunkyForReal]

It's also a fine time to point out that I enjoy poking certain sensitive types with my use of the Columbia Sportswear logo as my avatar.

According to Columbia Sportswear and their adherents the logo is explained thusly:

Columbia is one of those brands, that value their history and keeps using the iconic symbols, created for them at the beginning of their existence, as the main part of the visual identity. The brand, founded in 1938, used a simple wordmark until the introduction of the geometric emblem in 1978. It was a rhombus, composed of eight equal rectangles, which aimed to represent the woven textile.

See? It's not an eeebil swastika, it's just a harmless rhombus. Nope, not a swastika. Not at all.

But pardon me if I'll laugh my ass off at especially news reporters who will get all breathless because some twerp at a junior high school scrawled a swastika in a bathroom stall all while they're proudly wearing what is quite obviously a swastika. And usually on live television.

Oh, and my (utterly insincere) apologies to anyone reading this who owns Columbia gear and is now realizing they paid good money to wear a swastika as a status symbol.

Me: lookn at my Columbia trail shoes and boots…

 

[-bZ-LongTrang1]

That sucks since the EU bans and restricts everything even criticism of EU

The first rule of every dictatorship is to outlaw criticism of the dictatorship.

Ergo, the EU is a dictatorship.

 

[MiddleButton]

The first rule of every dictatorship is to outlaw criticism of the dictatorship.

Ergo, the EU is a dictatorship.

My mom is a dictatorship.

 

[The0bamessiah]

My mom is a dictatorship.

Can confirm. She beat the hell out of my dick last night.

 

[The0bamessiah]

What's funny is how the Russians use the Azov as a justification for their invasion of Ukraine in 2014 when the Azov didn't even exist prior to that invasion!

Worse yet, the overwhelming majority of Azov fighters are Russian-speaking ethnic Russians...supposedly the people Putin wants to "protect". Doesn't seem to me that they want to be protected by Russia.

Don't forget that Hitler despised Slavs and thought them only slightly better than Jews. The idea that Ukraine - a country with a Jewish president and which is full of Slavs - is Nazi is ridiculous. Russia is just so mind-broken by WWII that they can't conceive of their enemies as being anything other than "Nazis". Funny enough you see that this line of thought has also seeped into academia. The country is full of college graduates who genuinely believe that an orange-colored man with a Jewish-convert daughter is a bona fide National Socialist.

 

[HugoStiglitz165]

that was a sweet ass book report

 

[KratingDaang]

What's funny is how the Russians use the Azov as a justification for their invasion of Ukraine in 2014 when the Azov didn't even exist prior to that invasion!

Worse yet, the overwhelming majority of Azov fighters are Russian-speaking ethnic Russians...supposedly the people Putin wants to "protect". Doesn't seem to me that they want to be protected by Russia.

Azov started as a local militia in response to the Russian invasion and in the absence of Ukrainian forces. Lots of young men joined up and plenty of them were probably gamers beforehand and I hate to say it, but the gaming community seems to have thing for Nazi iconography.

Azov definitely has some fascist sympathies. But prior to the Russian invasion no one gave a shit about them.

In any case, they're busy killing Russian invaders and until this war ends I personally don't GAF if they run around saying "Heil Hitler" all the live long day so long as they're fighting and bleeding for their country.

Going back to the wolfsangel, it's a wolfsangel. Azov uses it and so does Russia.

We see lots of guys with the Russian "Z" on their BF4 avatars.

If we ban the Azov for using the wolfsangel I'd say it's a safe bet we'll ban EVERYONE who uses it. That's going to hurt a lot more Russian fanbois than it will the few Azov supporters we see.

Bro you are so correct.

I have seen tons of Russian soldiers with black sun tattoos. A couple Russian POWs were even covered from head to toe in nazi tattoos.

The guy who founded Wagner had the SS tattoos.

Guys like Alexei Milchakov are all over the Russian military.

The whole "Ukrainian nazis" thing is basically bullshit.