Rule Question/Suggestion

[xBlastFTPastx]

So ran into a something yesterday I wanted to ask about. If one team is all capped, shouldn't BOTH uncaps be fair game?

Yesterday I assisted the Russia team on Locker who was all capped (US had A-E flags and were spawn raping as is allowed); I broke through and made it all the way to Alpha to start a back-cap. Since their entire team was at the E flag they wouldn't have enough time to run back and stop my squad from taking it, however they could spawn on their uncap and attack us from there. I wanted to shoot some suppressive 320's/grenades into the uncap hallways (on Alpha) to slow them down but I realized if I killed someone I'd technically be breaking the uncap rule even though it was our only chance to turn things around.

Any of that make sense?

 

[BigBadBagOfSwag]

Only the team who has captured all of the flags is allowed to target the other teams uncap.

 

[MerkelValkyria]

No. The opposing team that has captured all the objectives no longer has any capturable objectives, so although this is a dick move, they can attack the uncap. It's all they have left to do.

Your team, for its part, can still take objectives.

 

[MerkelValkyria]

Players would also abuse such permission by waiting to lose the 5 objectives, then take the opportunity to steal helicopters and vehicles from the dominant team, and in a few minutes, the tide could turn completely in the opposite direction for the rest of the game. At least with the current rules, it's more difficult to do this since you can't kill the enemy into their base to steal their vehicle.

Or a heli whore could simply camp the opposing base of the dominant team to prevent them from taking their helicopter, and they could quietly farm the server without caring about losing.

The ideal would be that no matter the circumstances, it would be forbidden to attack the uncap.

 

[-bZ-LongTrang1]

Only the team who has captured all of the flags is allowed to target the other teams uncap.

As someone on the receiving end of that butt rape yesterday I agree with you and with the rule. It makes total sense for the team that did the work to cap all the flags to be able to contain the enemy to their base.

Also, it's exceptionally challenging to try to break out of that kind of situation! It makes the game anything but boring!

Have to admit, if I was on the winning team that was attacking an uncap I'd switch and fight my way out!

 

[xBlastFTPastx]

Players would also abuse such permission by waiting to lose the 5 objectives, then take the opportunity to steal helicopters and vehicles from the dominant team

I could see how that could be an issue but that is also possible just in normal gameplay (as long as you don't kill anyone when stealing the vehicle). Plus if that were to happen when things turned around the other team could do the same no?

 

[MerkelValkyria]

I could see how that could be an issue but that is also possible just in normal gameplay (as long as you don't kill anyone when stealing the vehicle). Plus if that were to happen when things turned around the other team could do the same no?

Yes, but it's a little harder if you can't kill anyone, plus the risk of being banned if you have a bad reflex in their base.

I always play in Shanghai and it would be extremely easy to regularly steal the enemy attack helicopter and yet, players generally respect the enemy base and don't venture there. Nothing is more unpleasant than a team dominating the sky with two attack helicopters and transports (even if I'm happy to take them down). The problem would especially be with those who do it. It would make it too easy for them to be able to camp the enemy base, steal or destroy the attack heli and soldiers when they spawn, then go farming elsewhere on the map, and comeback few time later to camp the enemy base again and destroy the attack heli as soon it's spawn. Rinse and repeat until one flag is captured.

Whereas the team that is dominated, that no longer has a flag, has no choice but to appear in their base, so they can better protect their base against that.

In the case of Operation Locker, your proposal is interesting, but in other maps it could be an issue. And better not having different rules by map. Players are already having a hard time dealing with the rule surrounding uncap.

 

[Howiemandel01]

What would be cool, and this is fantasy, but when or if, a team gets cap'd out, instead of being able to ONLY spawn on squad leader, it changes to you can spawn on anyone in squad. Progressive. But would make it a tad bit better for teams cap'd out

 

[Radical_194]

I understand the rules as written. I also understand enforcement of rules is tedious and it's nigh-impossible to enforce a "don't attack uncap" rule when that's the only direction an enemy can come from, hence the all cap exception. Also that a lot of players lack awareness and don't stop attacking the uncap when a flag is threatened creates more reports, and allowing attacking uncap in both directions will increase the reports in these situations.


Blast's original question/suggestion does have some merit, please consider it carefully over time as the player base continues to change.


As written, the dominant team is in a reinforcing loop of "to those that have shall more be given". This change could salvage blow out games and allow veterans who !assist to even games out.

If a dominant team has all the objectives, and the weaker team is not currently taking an objective, both uncaps would be fair game. Game play would be more balanced without giving the dominant team the edge to maintain their monopoly. Under current rules stealing assets is allowed regardless of situation, as long as shots are not fired within uncap (for weaker team) so it's a bad argument.

Some thoughts:

• All-cap/blow out games drop server population (anecdotal), especially when there's issues with team stacking.
• Locker/Metro: This helps a lone Recon to breakthrough, establish a spawn beacon, and have the discretion to kill an individual in uncap (silenced shot) to protect the beacon from discovery. Once the flag is attacked, this is moot.
• Vehicle heavy maps: This would allow a singular air unit to put pressure on the dominant team's uncap, either by disrupting supply lines by destroying unoccupied / occupied vehicles or forcing additional people to spawn there to spread out defense from the front lines. Check and balance is the enemy base AA.
• Naval Maps: Infantry being able to attack an enemy boat near the uncap ties it up so it can't immediately support the flags. Most boats are vulnerable betwen uncap and closest island(s).
• Early all cap dominance can be the end of the game due to assets gained. (Gulf of Oman, Operation Mortar, etc.)

 

[Howiemandel01]

man I wish I was a coder once caped out the dominant team would start losing players to shitt team one every 50 points lost till 2 flags were taken. The players moved would revert back to original team

 

[OKNewPlan]

This is mainly a BZ exclusive problem because they have not put their balancer on strict enough settings. On other popular servers (mostly European) the balancers kick in when an obvious one-sided match is taking place and it makes most matches an enjoyable nail-biter. All of these extra rules we're discussing wouldn't be needed if the balancer was set in an effective manner.

To the admins; the regulars that play all the time want the BZ servers to succeed, just listen.

 

[Firedoc]

To the admins; the regulars that play all the time want the BZ servers to succeed, just listen.

Well our servers have been going strong since 2017 and earlier. To me that means they have succeeded. And I applaud our admins for giving up their time for this success.

 

[PandaExpress293]

This is mainly a BZ exclusive problem because they have not put their balancer on strict enough settings. On other popular servers (mostly European) the balancers kick in when an obvious one-sided match is taking place and it makes most matches an enjoyable nail-biter. All of these extra rules we're discussing wouldn't be needed if the balancer was set in an effective manner.

To the admins; the regulars that play all the time want the BZ servers to succeed, just listen.

Many of those same regulars also have VIP (such as yourself) so with a higher intensity of balance protection, all we're going to do is piss off the average player by constantly swapping them.

 

[xBlastFTPastx]

Well our servers have been going strong since 2017 and earlier

I mean, there are less than half of the servers left from when I started playing in 2021 though right? Siege hardcore, BZ10, Hardcore rush...they all gone now.

Many of those same regulars also have VIP (such as yourself) so with a higher intensity of balance protection, all we're going to do is piss off the average player by constantly swapping them.

This I agree with, at this point it's up to the community to balance things and we should be using social pressure to keep things even. You can't legislate fairness all we can do is shame the people who actively make it worse (for example if someone switches to the winning team call 'em out).

Three other suggestions (if possible to do):

1.) Lower the time to !assist right of the back: 5 minutes is an incredibly long time to wait to use the !assist command (could be 30% of the total round time). I imagine this rule is there because it's impossible to really know how a match will turn out in the first few minutes but at this point I can just look at the 2 teams and know when a match will be 800-0 (especially during the daytime). This might be bugged or something because I have seen people get to assist right away and other times I am just waiting what feels like FOREVER after all-capping the enemy to assist to their team.

2.) Get rid of the !disperse list.

3.) VIPs lose reputation points for using the !moveme command if the other team is winning.

 

[FunkyForReal]

Players would also abuse such permission by waiting to lose the 5 objectives, then take the opportunity to steal helicopters and vehicles from the dominant team, and in a few minutes, the tide could turn completely in the opposite direction for the rest of the game. At least with the current rules, it's more difficult to do this since you can't kill the enemy into their base to steal their vehicle.

Or a heli whore could simply camp the opposing base of the dominant team to prevent them from taking their helicopter, and they could quietly farm the server without caring about losing.

The ideal would be that no matter the circumstances, it would be forbidden to attack the uncap.

Yeh If my side is all capped then I do that to the enemy jets. Spawn kill ‘em or camp em with Heli so the team can take an objective. I dont think it’s against the rules tho… Once obj is taken then pull back. Worked much better on bf3 since TV missile could fire outside range of AA.

 

[Sabretooth-Ninja]

 

[Mobius.jpeg]

I don’t call any shots lol, I just enforce the rules.

 

[Mobius.jpeg]

I mean, there are less than half of the servers left from when I started playing in 2021 though right? Siege hardcore, BZ10, Hardcore rush...they all gone now.

There was a MASSIVE influx of players during that time, so we added more servers with more maps and more modes. Since then, the overall playerbase has gotten smaller and smaller, some of those servers lost all population, so they were shut down. I believe we still currently have more servers now than we did before the great resurgence.

 

[FunkyForReal]

There was a MASSIVE influx of players during that time, so we added more servers with more maps and more modes. Since then, the overall playerbase has gotten smaller and smaller, some of those servers lost all population, so they were shut down. I believe we still currently have more servers now than we did before the great resurgence.

Once BF4 is done it’s back to Doom XD

For real tho, as much as I bitch like a whiny fag I do appreciate that y’all keep the servers going for HC

 

[PandaExpress293]

I mean, there are less than half of the servers left from when I started playing in 2021 though right? Siege hardcore, BZ10, Hardcore rush...they all gone now.


1.) Lower the time to !assist right of the back: 5 minutes is an incredibly long time to wait to use the !assist command (could be 30% of the total round time). I imagine this rule is there because it's impossible to really know how a match will turn out in the first few minutes but at this point I can just look at the 2 teams and know when a match will be 800-0 (especially during the daytime). This might be bugged or something because I have seen people get to assist right away and other times I am just waiting what feels like FOREVER after all-capping the enemy to assist to their team.

2.) Get rid of the !disperse list.

3.) VIPs lose reputation points for using the !moveme command if the other team is winning.

1. I believe this is partially done due to what you mention regarding people switching too early. I also believe it’s like that to prevent people from swapping teams in general at the round start because they want to be on the other side. We’ve tried stats based balancing but it doesn’t work out as well as we has hoped. Those that kill the most don’t always contribute the most and they’re the ones who have the high kpm/kdr/spm. That’s why it’s purely based on player count and whoever happens to die first. There will always be landslide rounds though, no amount of balancing will prevent that. I have however seen an increase of really close rounds lately though, down to ~10 tickets difference.

2. Neo has already said he’d be removing dispersion. However whether or not he has already done it or has lacked the time to make the change is unknown to me.

3. As I’ve stated elsewhere, reputation points don’t really have an effect on anyone as I don’t believe we have punishments linked directly to negative rep like some servers do. If I recall correctly you never drop below zero (unless you’re banned). Autobalance protection is part of the vip perks so I don’t think it’s fair to punish people for taking advantage of that. If anything (though it’s not my call to make) I’d like to offer vip time (maybe 1h up to a day) to people who willingly assist when the auto balance messages appear. If possible I’d rather reward people for swapping than punish for not.