Who is God

[Koshmenk]

(Excluding the god of Spinoza)
If we take into account everything that has been told about God as being perfect, good, merciful and so on, since the Jewish people began to discern their predecessor civilization, Canannia, this God has evolved with the human being until today (knowing that evolution is not only biological but also has a social and cultural connotation), that said, human beings and the vision they had and have That God has a political aspect when he should only be religious. The 6 monotheistic religions have been killing each other (except 1 or 2) for a few thousand years to be able to exercise their voice that their version of God is the right one and that this is the one accepted worldwide... the control of Constantinople was crucial for the time, everyone was passing by there or at least much of what was marketed, and it was there that is where one of To form a shield and a couple of drops with a Latin prayer was enough so that you could kill, rape, steal and still enter the sky, and for what? Control the main trade route and expand the word of God.

It was not until shortly after the Black Death that God's believers began to plummet in terms of numbers, people already wondered if God really existed and why he punished his most humble creation. Hell had not yet been constituted "globally", in each region of Europe there was a different version of what really happened after death, many made adaptations of their ancient mythologies to be able to explain and it was not until the work of Dante Alighieri that Hell itself was formed. Dante had written The Divine Comedy in two languages, the language of rich people and that of commoners (yes, they had different languages depending on which social class they belonged to). In Venice, one of the metropolises of the old world and where Dante lived after being expelled from his home, The Divine Comedy was recited in every corner because a large part of the population did not know how to read, they were ignorant and as a child was very easy to manipulate due to their lack of knowledge, people began to believe because it was told in a very vivid way Only one and people already had a single line to follow.

The rest is history, if the first Christians came to see from wherever they are what their God became by accepting homosexuals in their church, to witches disguised as women with above-average knowledge, the reaction to the Greeks would not be very different seeing how the Romans let women into their orgies.
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I am not writing this with the intention of offending the beliefs of any of you, I needed to procrastinate being banned from the server...

 

[Sabretooth-Ninja]

Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Zorostrutha, Muhammed, the Ahmadiyya, and Guru Nanak all preached the same words and believe in the oneness of God.

The main error in my opinion of those who believe and those who disbelieve is that the Being, the Creator, the God of all these messengers os somehow different, that "my" God is better than "your" God. To make the claim that mine is better than yours, that mine is the right one and yours is the wrong one, is the essence of disbelief in the oneness of God. There is no mine and yours, there only is.

The stupidity and arrogance of man is the reason for the violence between beliefs. Ultimately, God forgives whom he wills.


As far as labels and comprehension of the concept of diety, sin, and forgiveness, those are limitations of our feeble minds and limited elocution. We are unable to grasp the meaning and manifestation of this higher power, call it as you will, just as a fish in its limited habitat cannot grasp the existence of a solar system, a galaxy, or a universe; similar to the allegory of the cave.

It is fallacy to believe that all things that exist or have existed can be detected and measured by us in our plane or dimension of existence, a theological analogue to Godel's Incompleteness Theorem.

Why is there suffering and pain? Because there must be. For there to be up there must be down. Yin and Yang to borrow language from Eastern Taoism (forgive my oversimplification, it's late and I should be sleeping). To get caught up in "why do children get cancer?" is to completely misunderstand the nature of the grand schema, to put too much value in the material world; suffering and pain are words of fear, despair, and grievance. Faith, and the definition thereof, immediately annuls these concepts of human creation. I understand very much that this is easy for me to say as I lay comfortably and healthily in my bed.

This is not to say that pain and suffering is all in a person's mind or that people dont experience feelings that we call pain and suffering; what I mean to say is that those words are human constructs and we give a lot of power to the concepts of pain and suffering simply by having those words in our language.

I am not sure precisely what you are asking but I hope I answered at least a small part of your question.

 

[The0bamessiah]

What?

 

[Koshmenk]

The truth is that I did this to be able to see and understand other points of view regarding this topic, some time ago we talked about this topic in the chat but I just wanted to continue reading what you had to tell me at that time and now I feel quite satisfied.

I do not doubt the existence of a God but I still feel that that name is being misinterpreted for reasons you already mentioned, I like to call it Cosmic Consciousness so it does not represent any religion.

There is a theory that in my opinion should already be the law and it is one of the semiotic theories that speaks precisely about the perception of reality depending on the organism, "in the blind and deaf world of the tick, its only perception of reality is the smell of butyric acid and the temperature", although we are not capable of understanding ourselves (because an object cannot understand itself) it does not prevent us from being able to approach that cosmic consciousness but there is still a long way to go as a society and culture globally for that level of understanding. I don't remember if it was Carl Sagan or Michiu Kaku who said "if we built an 8-lane track next to an anthill, the ants wouldn't know what that structure means and most likely wouldn't even notice it's there."

 

[FluffMuffin94]

Religion omegalul

 

[Sabretooth-Ninja]

Religion omegalul

1) this discussion describes the inequality between belief/faith and religion. If your take away is "religion omegalul" then you're not paying attention.

2) tell me what existed before the universe and what happens after death since you have all the answers. We are currently living in the right hand side of the equation of existence post Big Bang. If Big Bang is indeed true, tell me what comprises the left hand side of the equation?

 

[Howiemandel01]

I don't believe anything regarding God, and or, the big bang can be true, in the sense that most people tend to believe or lean towards. People talk about the big bang being the start of it all. That doesn't make sense to me. Something caused the "big bang", where did the matter come from to create the big bang? I mean, there was nothing, then something? And if there was something, how did it fill, what appears in our minds to be an infinite amount of space? Then, what is space? Why is there an infinite amount of space? Where did the nothingness of space come from? ......"Well Howie, you dont understand, this matter collided with this matter and then......" ok. where did that matter come from, and where did the "space" come from where it existed to begin with in the first place. Now. IF pressed to answer what I believe in,
It is that energy/electricity is God. That somewhere in the universe is a big ball of, electricity/power/energy. All energy/electricity, in the end and beginning is attracted to this area. Heaven if you will. The atoms and molecues travel to and from this area. When the electricity in your body leaves it after you die, it will, eventually end up in the "heaven" All things have atoms that move around/vibrate. Concretes atoms barely move. Water's atoms move around like crazy, i'll stop now because at the end of the day....none of it is explainable as far as im concerned however someday we will understand. Just not now.

 

[FluffMuffin94]

1) Faith / religion is a tool for those with power to control the masses. Always has been, always will be.

That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but in most cases, it is.

When it comes to belief, having faith in a higher power.. I don't believe. My understanding of faith is the same as my understanding of how people in general work.

All humans are brought up by their families and communities. All children are imprinted with how to live life. How to make decisions. Right vs. wrong. Religion is a big part of that upbringing for most people. People are brainwashed to fit in society. A lot of people are brainwashed into believing in a higher power.

You talk about the fact that we can't measure if a higher power exists, because it is outside our realm of comprehension, or whatever. Well, if we can't measure or perceive it, it simply is irrelevant for our existence. The goal of our species is to survive and reproduce. It isn't any more complicated than that.

As humans we have to adapt to the things we can measure or perceive. We cannot adapt to something there is no way of perceiving or measuring. I don't believe in measuring the existence of a higher power by looking at the number of believers. The believers in a higher power are ALL taught, imprinted to believe, or the term I prefer: Brainwashed. Every single human being is brainwashed, believer or not.

If believing makes people better, then I don't mind. I do not believe faith makes people better, but I do believe faith makes life easier for the individuals.

2) "If, if, if" I'll let you know what I believe when we find out. I'll let other people devote their time to finding out.

I don't believe in the big bang. I don't believe in evolution. I don't believe in a lot of things, because a lot of things don't have sufficient proof. And if proof exists, how do I know it is not manipulated by someone else?

How the world came to be, or what will happen to the world after I am gone, really doesn't matter. I choose to live my life in compliance with the brainwashing I was subjected to. Or do I, in fact, choose?

Again:
Religion omegalul

 

[Sabretooth-Ninja]

1) Faith / religion is a tool for those with power to control the masses. Always has been, always will be.

That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but in most cases, it is.

When it comes to belief, having faith in a higher power.. I don't believe. My understanding of faith is the same as my understanding of how people in general work.

All humans are brought up by their families and communities. All children are imprinted with how to live life. How to make decisions. Right vs. wrong. Religion is a big part of that upbringing for most people. People are brainwashed to fit in society. A lot of people are brainwashed into believing in a higher power.

You talk about the fact that we can't measure if a higher power exists, because it is outside our realm of comprehension, or whatever. Well, if we can't measure or perceive it, it simply is irrelevant for our existence. The goal of our species is to survive and reproduce. It isn't any more complicated than that.

As humans we have to adapt to the things we can measure or perceive. We cannot adapt to something there is no way of perceiving or measuring. I don't believe in measuring the existence of a higher power by looking at the number of believers. The believers in a higher power are ALL taught, imprinted to believe, or the term I prefer: Brainwashed. Every single human being is brainwashed, believer or not.

If believing makes people better, then I don't mind. I do not believe faith makes people better, but I do believe faith makes life easier for the individuals.

2) "If, if, if" I'll let you know what I believe when we find out. I'll let other people devote their time to finding out.

I don't believe in the big bang. I don't believe in evolution. I don't believe in a lot of things, because a lot of things don't have sufficient proof. And if proof exists, how do I know it is not manipulated by someone else?

How the world came to be, or what will happen to the world after I am gone, really doesn't matter. I choose to live my life in compliance with the brainwashing I was subjected to. Or do I, in fact, choose?

Again:
Religion omegalul

Yawn.

 

[Koshmenk]

Okay so here is the thing with Big Bang, sorry i couldn’t find a video en english but yt has automatic subtitles and they are pretty good.

I am pretty younger and i have this memory of my first day of consciousness and everything i remenber before that is nothing, i dont expect god came to me and gave a harm welcome… so what’s next afterlife, will be different?

Here is the other thing our consciousness is possible how wit works because the fisiology and anatomy of our brain

 

[Howiemandel01]

that brings me to a point, where again, it is electricity that powers us. electricity (so to speak) is what moves everything in our body. perhaps it is NOT the mind that controls us, but the electricity itself. But then, perhaps there is something....someone, controlling the electricity to move us... hmmmmmm its very interesting. I have read, that science have put electrodes and shocked (added electricity) to parts of the human brain, that allowed that person to remember exact things and have perfect recall amongst other things. That leads to me to believe that while the brain does store information (of all kinds of things, movement, memory etc) it is THE electricity that is working together to make it all......well, work. So perhaps it is the electricity that is, smart. Or....the controller. Heres a neat idea... we are as a society pushing electric everything........maybe its the electricity that is making society do its bidding.....hmmmmmmm

 

[Koshmenk]

Maybe you got to think about energy instead electricity, energy is everything, particles, molecules, etc. but if someone is “moving us” there is not free will.
(also you can find a connection between electricity and energy, electricity its just electrones moving, same as radiation)

 

[XboxBoii]

No God, just evolution and procreation.

Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Zorostrutha, Muhammed, the Ahmadiyya, and Guru Nanak all preached the same words and believe in the oneness of God.

The main error in my opinion of those who believe and those who disbelieve is that the Being, the Creator, the God of all these messengers os somehow different, that "my" God is better than "your" God. To make the claim that mine is better than yours, that mine is the right one and yours is the wrong one, is the essence of disbelief in the oneness of God. There is no mine and yours, there only is.

The stupidity and arrogance of man is the reason for the violence between beliefs. Ultimately, God forgives whom he wills.


As far as labels and comprehension of the concept of diety, sin, and forgiveness, those are limitations of our feeble minds and limited elocution. We are unable to grasp the meaning and manifestation of this higher power, call it as you will, just as a fish in its limited habitat cannot grasp the existence of a solar system, a galaxy, or a universe; similar to the allegory of the cave.

It is fallacy to believe that all things that exist or have existed can be detected and measured by us in our plane or dimension of existence, a theological analogue to Godel's Incompleteness Theorem.

Why is there suffering and pain? Because there must be. For there to be up there must be down. Yin and Yang to borrow language from Eastern Taoism (forgive my oversimplification, it's late and I should be sleeping). To get caught up in "why do children get cancer?" is to completely misunderstand the nature of the grand schema, to put too much value in the material world; suffering and pain are words of fear, despair, and grievance. Faith, and the definition thereof, immediately annuls these concepts of human creation. I understand very much that this is easy for me to say as I lay comfortably and healthily in my bed.

This is not to say that pain and suffering is all in a person's mind or that people dont experience feelings that we call pain and suffering; what I mean to say is that those words are human constructs and we give a lot of power to the concepts of pain and suffering simply by having those words in our language.

I am not sure precisely what you are asking but I hope I answered at least a small part of your question.

I’m just assuming that youre talking about the Abrahamic God and I’m assuming youre talking about sin in Abrahamic religions. Adam and Eve were both created in God’s image. Because of this, Adam and Eve and their descendants all posses the thinking capabilities and morality as God. It is the deviations from being like God, who posses morality, ethics, and other positive/good attributes, is what causes a person to sin. It is the Godless self that makes individuals sinful and “evil”. This explanation comes from Matthew Fox in ”The Trial of God” by Elie Wiesel.

In regards to suffering and pain, I would have to review my notes about that. TBH, I feel like you’re not really interested in that, so I’m just not gonna pursue it.

 

[XboxBoii]

1) Faith / religion is a tool for those with power to control the masses. Always has been, always will be.

That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but in most cases, it is.

When it comes to belief, having faith in a higher power.. I don't believe. My understanding of faith is the same as my understanding of how people in general work.

All humans are brought up by their families and communities. All children are imprinted with how to live life. How to make decisions. Right vs. wrong. Religion is a big part of that upbringing for most people. People are brainwashed to fit in society. A lot of people are brainwashed into believing in a higher power.

You talk about the fact that we can't measure if a higher power exists, because it is outside our realm of comprehension, or whatever. Well, if we can't measure or perceive it, it simply is irrelevant for our existence. The goal of our species is to survive and reproduce. It isn't any more complicated than that.

As humans we have to adapt to the things we can measure or perceive. We cannot adapt to something there is no way of perceiving or measuring. I don't believe in measuring the existence of a higher power by looking at the number of believers. The believers in a higher power are ALL taught, imprinted to believe, or the term I prefer: Brainwashed. Every single human being is brainwashed, believer or not.

If believing makes people better, then I don't mind. I do not believe faith makes people better, but I do believe faith makes life easier for the individuals.

2) "If, if, if" I'll let you know what I believe when we find out. I'll let other people devote their time to finding out.

I don't believe in the big bang. I don't believe in evolution. I don't believe in a lot of things, because a lot of things don't have sufficient proof. And if proof exists, how do I know it is not manipulated by someone else?

How the world came to be, or what will happen to the world after I am gone, really doesn't matter. I choose to live my life in compliance with the brainwashing I was subjected to. Or do I, in fact, choose?

Again:
Religion omegalul

Yeah it’s definitely true that religion has been used to control/brainwash people, but I wouldn’t necessarily generalize that towards that notion. Religion has helped people to “cope” with the harsh world we live in. People are comforted that there is an afterlife, so when their love ones die or they are about to die, the believer is comforted that they wont go into oblivion. Religion also served as an explanation for the origins of humanity and the universe. Humans are naturally curious and they want to know why certain things are the way they are. This curiosity is innate, which eventually led to the development of philosophy. Philosophy, which means love of knowledge, gave birth to all the scientific branches we all know today. That curiosity to find the truth of the universe is what eventually led you to play bf4 on a computer, type in this forum, and live the comfortable life you have now.

Not believing in the big bang, in evolution, or any thing in existence without having “sufficient proof” just makes you into a cynic. To discredit the big bang theory and the theory of evolution would be to discredit the processes that made those theories into theories. Computers, which was developed by science, are not real because they have insufficient proof of how they work. The electricity and components that make them up? Fake, not enough proof. The elements that make up these components, fake I can’t see the atoms and I don’t believe electrons are real. The ground is flat and I see too far, therefore the Earth is flat and not round, not enough proof. That what you sound like rn.

 

[LordTomBrady]

I liked everything here because this is how I learn. I can be honest and admit I don't know what the fuck is going on, but without all of you theorizing your own points I am left with my own thoughts. No one is wrong, because we don't know, but I can lean heavily towards agreeing to Kosh and Sabre, Fluff's rebuff, and Howie's fascination on electricity because I have IRL exp with electricity. It can potentially explain so much, as Tesla said. It also involves understanding what we're actually living in, everything fucking vibrates. I'm in the sauce, right now, but I like this thread.

 

[LordTomBrady]

 

[XboxBoii]

Maybe you got to think about energy instead electricity, energy is everything, particles, molecules, etc. but if someone is “moving us” there is not free will.
(also you can find a connection between electricity and energy, electricity its just electrones moving, same as radiation)

I think the electricity is sufficient towards howie’s explanation towards how humans move. As you already know, the brain‘s activity is dictated by neuronal activity, which is again controlled by the flow of ions into and out of the neurons. This flow of ions causes the membranes to become electrically polarized, which causes them to release the neurotransmitters once the polarization has reached the axon terminals. I forgot some of the science involved with the neurons, but thats basically an oversimplification.

In regards to energy, I feel like a better way to incorporate that concept would be to look at ATP. The phosphodiester bond between the phosphate groups that is broken is what gives the cells in our bodies the energy to do the things it requires to move and generally function. Without the energy in ATP, we would just be dead.

 

[Koshmenk]

Yes, but we would already be talking about chemical energy that cells create in their cycles (Krebs and Calvin in photosynthetic organisms), these being semi-self-sufficient. What I mean is the energy itself, movement of electrons, correlations between them. The big bang, thanks to thermodynamics we can understand how it all started, with electron physics we can understand how stars were formed and how they also die, merging until only neutrons remain.

There are experiments that talk about the energies of living beings and the importance that it has on us, a large part of the children who have suffered from cancer come from families that do not have good treatment, spend insulting each other and among other things that are not worth getting into detail.

One of the most remarkable experiments would be vases of water with rice, where each one was treated differently and the result was that the vase that was rained down with insults ended up rotting faster. Now if you think about how treating a person badly makes them start to show discouragement, they distance themselves from people, they live a pessimistic life and it doesn't matter if the person is one of those people who doesn't care to be talked about, because they really care about them. influences.When I refer to energy, I mean everything encompassed in the same system, the same system of which we are a part.

 

[XboxBoii]

I’m kinda confused with your earlier statements in regards to the big bang and thermodynamic, and electron physics describing how stars are formed.

I thought thermodynamics has to deal with heat and energy. When people talk about thermodynamics in relation to the big bang, they usually ask if the big bang violates thermodynamics, since something came from nothing.

For the physics for star formation, I’ve never really heard about electron physics before. I’m not entirely sure how that is related to star formation.

For the above stuff, could you explain how thermodynamics relates to the Big Bang and how the physics of electrons relates to star formation? I always want to expand my knowledge, since realistically I can’t learn everything in school, considering the major I took back in university. I think it’s interesting. You don’t have to if you don’t want to, I could just look it up once I have free time.

Also, for the vase of water and rice experiment, who conducted this experiment?

 

[Koshmenk]

First of all, it should be clarified that the confusion regarding the big bang that two particles collided with each other and the universe was formed comes from a United States program in which the guest was one of those who saw the traces left by the big bang Microwaved, the guy was on Nationwide and with a short period of time he couldn't have made any sense of how it really happened. The point is that all the existing matter in the universe was concentrated in a diameter not greater than the diameter of our solar system and this is where thermodynamics comes in, all this ball of mass would have to have been very small with the same density and temperature at each point of it to give rise to what Alan Guth described as the inflationary period in which the temperature of this mass had to rise to such a magnitude and thus expand.

Regarding the formation of stars, it is necessary to take into account how the atoms fuse and how each one of them is composed, but at least with the stars, it is only necessary to focus on the Helium, which is their fuel, as the stars are spending this fuel lose electrons by nature, the stars are losing mass but in turn the Helium begins to fuse with other Helium atoms like this, forming heavier atoms such as carbon, neon, oxygen, etc. and this is where I realize that I was wrong that I didn't mean star formation but how stars die lol.

I would have to look up the papers I read it in, it was a long time ago but it was a reliable source from what I remember. (I could say that a friend did the experiment and that it worked for him but it was just an exchange of words at the time and I didn't get to see the jars)