Appeal Denied Ban Appeal: bfplayer100

[bfplayer-Chat]

In-game Name bfplayer100

Have you cheated before? Never. no.

What's your side of the story as to why you were banned? Per the banzore stats - it states: "abusing VIP. Team switching to winning team every single round "

Why should we lift your ban? I'm not sure it's permanent, and would like to present my information pertaining to the current ban in hopes to attempt to either lift or help to make temporary - if possible, or check and see even if it would be considered. Long messages are skipped, I hope you at least read what I'm about to say as I've a lot of background. Short question, I did not find anything on the server about 'abusing VIP' - I had no idea that it could possibly be an issue. It's rare I'm certain, but can it be mentioned somewhere on the VIP information page for others who are unknowing? I try to abide by the rules, and found/find no VIP rules. I must surmise this is an Admin/server manager - prerogative. I was using a feature I thought was given me as a benefit given as reward. I've not been around long enough to have common sense about VIP. A short point which doesn't really help me, I've lost 774 matches, hence 'every single round' as mentioned, may not be entirely accurate and understand may not be of concern. Many players on Banzore have not even played 774 matches and many, when I have anything to say on the chat tell me "nobody cares'. Some may say this topic should be simply common sense, and based on this situation, I wish it was 'common sense' for me - I was caught totally by surprise and have never intentionally cheated. If it were in the rules like every other rule, I could have avoided the issue. I don't want to use the "jojo did it, my brother did it, my mamma did it" type defense. I understand this is your servers and you can and do manage in order to help maintain a place for people to play the BF4 game - I believe I've been much more help than hinder - I've over 900 rep score which many times are reporting those players who are disruptive based on rules 1-4. I initially joined VIP to help keep the servers running, I know it must be expensive. I spend much time on the server during low user hours in order to help "populate" as is stated in the game -- users get rewarded for. I've worked hard to find ways to keep it alive and found, very recently, moving helps to keep the server active and many times balanced. I know this is long, and apologize for such, but it wasn't a simple decision on my part to 'abuse' anything, nor to become a VIP. I've watched many players here and have chatted and learned from many. My gameplay is not popular by many - one example is the K/D - I don't care about it (shocking to most who haven't realized it's not a game changer on this type server). I am a 'non-conventional' player, and do not fit into conventional warfare type play nor the squad type play. It is not a rule to be conventional, I've learned single players running up to a flag to cap it doesn't get the attention a squad does from the enemy. K/D isn't even shown when a person types !stats. I don't really mind getting killed because I can regroup and move to another flag where less protection is there. If my being killed was very detrimental I'd change my tactics, however, respawn is my friend - it's only a game and normally my deaths are not enough to cause my team to lose. A ticket here or there vs 400-500 points for neutralizing/capping is worth it in the end in my mind. You only need 1 leftover ticket available to win. When I started here I had a goal to be high in the rankings you have on the banzore/bf4-stats page and watched and started asking questions of the players - one group of players were in a "clan" which I had started asking. 'Many players harassed me' about my K/D being 'bad", I didn't care. (like many may not care about what I've to say here) Capping flags is always my goal. I watched players and learned. Some of those same players who harass me about K/D belong to a "Clan" (some don't). The majority of those who mention my changing teams are on that same clan which I aspired to 'catch' in the rankings. I initially learned from them how to "move" and that a player gets more points if win vs. lose --- I did not know until those clan members pointed it out to me.. HONEST - and it is not a common sense issue either (for me it wasn't anyway). Server doesn't state it anywhere - to the best of my knowledge and many many moves from me to the losing team - never seems to be mentioned, within chat, when I move to a losing team who end up winning because I capped flags for them. When you have a group of people, such as a clan, complaining, it appears to be a major issue. If it was a major issue, I didn't know. My goal has always been keep this server populated, to win - extra points awarded or not. Take those points if that is a better option, but hard to do as the times I moved to the losing team to help isn't factored in. For VIP I initially liked the other benefits, such as, you know, "Reserved Slot, Autobalance Protection, Ping Protection" lots of reasons for those, Double Map Vote points don't help on the server where I play. It was very recently I started using the 'moveme' command, as taught to me by players here. Please check the logs. However, you will find those same k/d complaining clan members may be the majority of those who complain about the moving. In game they never point out when I've come to help them and we win because of "caps".

Multiple reasons I'm certain of the complaint, I can point out other issues they may have with me, however I personally meant no harm and humbly ask you consider this to be a harsh warning/temporary action.

Kick reason (from Battlelog) If on there for my player, I don't see it.

I have checked and verified that I am not banned at https://bf4db.com Yes

I have checked and verified that I am not banned at https://battlefield.agency Yes

 

[bfplayer-Chat]

With all due respect to the admins of the server, I will attempt to be as respectful as possible. I have no idea how NEO drew the small/short straw - I must surmise the clan complained to NEO or NEO is a member of the clan in question or very good friends with someone on the clan or, very possibly, the choice of the short/small straw. Again, I am attempting to be as respectful as possible but must convey from my perspective because I'm on the outside looking in and will attempt to fully explain. It's a shame I must give up my strategy in public when the accuser is hidden from sight. I am not a clan member and for tactical reasons on this map have developed no friendships - some say sad - I laugh. It is difficult to 'sound' respectful when I must state the reason which was stated for my ban is an 'untruth'. If the ban is changed to another reason, we will work it from that direction as needed. I can find no complaints about me in the forums based on the ban reason, but within game, 1 particular clan continues to pick/bully on me subject being the ban stated action. The 'move' has been mentioned of recent within game, a lot, but it is not a complete statement. Why no official complaints in the forum?? I would have the opportunity to confront my accuser then. They make this accusation out loud in game chat in order to drum up support, on the surface without background - good job clan, well played. Yes, I move, but I also 'assist' and change sides after deaths. Assist at times won't work due to sides being even - I only see flags needing capped. Are there any 'stats' maintained by banzore which keep track of how many flags I cap to help the 'winning' team once I moved? More on this in a moment. K/D is one area the 'clan' continues to pick/bully on me as well - will further explain below. Why would anyone do this - move, change sides? Banzore provides the move ability as an incentive for donating. The reason given may not be the reason I use it, however, I don't use it specifically for the 'win' - or to be able to help a clan, 'whether or not on same side' (a very big point of contention for me but will save that one). I do it for my tactical/strategic/reasons, but not solely for the 'win' as eluded to -- stating in the manner stated allows for hiding of the true reason. I will further explain the reason. A main member of the clan mentioned recently - within a match, to me the win gets an extra 3000 points. I DID NOT KNOW THIS UNTIL THE CLAN MEMBER STATED IT. Once the clan stated that, "BONUS"! However, I've averaged over 13000 points per match, win lose or draw. Take away the 'win' points if you must, however, no matter the current ban reason stated -- it is simply not the case. Take away the VIP if you must, but move 'for the win' is simply not the reason used by me. Further explanation -- I've over 75000 caps.. What does that mean? A neutralize is 100 points, a CAP is 400 points, and a defend can be multiples of 100. Hence, 75000 multiplied by the 'minimal' 400 points will help to explain my #1 status on bz11. Again, the clan could not figure out how they can not keep up with my score when they are right there in game watching me - with each new reason they've come up with, helps me to know where their heads are. It continues to astound them - now they've pinned it on "wins" - Well, a part of the proof of the 'not true' -- I've lost over 700 games, that is not mentioned in the ban. They have also complained to me about 'camping' which is a bit short sighted. A part of my strategy will be to hang on an objective due to the fact some cannot 'find' me. Some call that 'camping' I call it waiting for the CAP again (500 points or more) while they play grab azz on C, the tower. The clan only sees I am, I'll say as they call it, camping, however, I see 400 points coming. Also, the clan picks/bullies on me because I don't 'squad up' with any of them - I don't with others as well. When I squad up, I have no problem when folks spawn on me, however, it's when they (educated clan members too) spawn on me, they give up my position by immediately working Kills... Kills, again, the clan incessantly bullied me about my K/D rate.. Go for it.. They get 100 points a kill. How many kills have any of them got. I've over 20000 while working to defend caps or to capture flags. Hence, the 20+K kills plus the 75+K caps and all those 'defends' in between will show why the #1 ranking. So, not sure how the ban subject started with banzore or Neo, but am certain now, the clan does not want to understand there is something a little bigger than 'A' kill, or 'A' win going on here. I've many other stats on battlelog for my defense. Respectfully request to reconsider the ban.

 

[Mobius.jpeg]

Can we get a TL;DR please

 

[bfplayer-Chat]

In the interest of being short, but attempting to be respectful.. There are no logs to prove the reason for this ban. I've moved many times via other methods (such as assist) and when match ended on I ended on the winning team. I work the 'caps' for the win - I've over 75K caps. With 900+ rep points, rep points are not received by using the move command.

 

[RogaineFoam]

I'll try to give you a somewhat detailed response on this item by item. I will likely miss a bunch since you gave giant blocks of text without any paragraph structures, which makes it a bitch to deal with.

"I've lost 774 matches" - You have played ~4000 matches here at Banzore. You have used !assist ~2000 times, and ~!moveme ~1000 times. It cannot be assumed that those were used across 3000 matches, but I can say that it is something that affected a majority of them. Winning ~3200/4000 matches with 3000 teamswapping commands is a bit excessive.

'All references to it is not in the rules to abuse VIP commands' - This rule was likely referenced in this case by Neo "The above rules what will usually be cited in punishes/kicks/bans but other reasons may be used if you're an exceptionally problematic player disrupting gameplay."

"I have over 900 rep" - That stems directly from using !assist 2000 times. This does not reflect that you're either a good, bad, helpful, or rule breaking individual since it is so highly influenced by the commands.

"Moving helps keep the server balanced and active" - I have attached an image of you moving ~20 times in a 3 hour period. There are pages and pages of situations just like this, some within just a few minutes of each other. We have an automatic team balancing and squad scrambling system that does this job for you.

Overall looking at your stats, your KD story... adds up to say the least. I am also not seeing strong evidence of capturing a lot of flags, as your score per minute is quite low. Unfortunately, your 75k flag caps are not on our servers, as they are your overall stats for your 4000 hours of play. You have 68k kills & 75k flag caps, with 23k kills on our server.

I think the main issue here is the sheer number of uses, and how it is used nearly every match, sometimes several times. Generally this isn't a huge problem, but some commands are often abused for stat padding. Since you haven't caused issues in other ways on the server, I am inclined to think that this punishment may be a bit too severe since there were no warnings or messages from our staff to you about this issue (that I can see). Let me know what your thoughts are on all of this, and please do not create another huge text wall without a single paragraph break, my eyes are bleeding.

 

[RogaineFoam]

Appeal denied due to inactivity.

 

[bfplayer-Chat]

I'll try to give you a somewhat detailed response on this item by item. I will likely miss a bunch since you gave giant blocks of text without any paragraph structures, which makes it a bitch to deal with.

"I've lost 774 matches" - You have played ~4000 matches here at Banzore. You have used !assist ~2000 times, and ~!moveme ~1000 times. It cannot be assumed that those were used across 3000 matches, but I can say that it is something that affected a majority of them. Winning ~3200/4000 matches with 3000 teamswapping commands is a bit excessive.

'All references to it is not in the rules to abuse VIP commands' - This rule was likely referenced in this case by Neo "The above rules what will usually be cited in punishes/kicks/bans but other reasons may be used if you're an exceptionally problematic player disrupting gameplay."

"I have over 900 rep" - That stems directly from using !assist 2000 times. This does not reflect that you're either a good, bad, helpful, or rule breaking individual since it is so highly influenced by the commands.

"Moving helps keep the server balanced and active" - I have attached an image of you moving ~20 times in a 3 hour period. There are pages and pages of situations just like this, some within just a few minutes of each other. We have an automatic team balancing and squad scrambling system that does this job for you.

Overall looking at your stats, your KD story... adds up to say the least. I am also not seeing strong evidence of capturing a lot of flags, as your score per minute is quite low. Unfortunately, your 75k flag caps are not on our servers, as they are your overall stats for your 4000 hours of play. You have 68k kills & 75k flag caps, with 23k kills on our server.

I think the main issue here is the sheer number of uses, and how it is used nearly every match, sometimes several times. Generally this isn't a huge problem, but some commands are often abused for stat padding. Since you haven't caused issues in other ways on the server, I am inclined to think that this punishment may be a bit too severe since there were no warnings or messages from our staff to you about this issue (that I can see). Let me know what your thoughts are on all of this, and please do not create another huge text wall without a single paragraph break, my eyes are bleeding.

Apologize for the eyebleed. I supported the server with donations and attempt to populate as the server asks everyday. I never intended to cheat in anyway, and feel as though some sort of warning should have been given. I understand this is your server and must abide by your rules. I did not know of the rule I was banned by, however, I feel even temporary stripping of the VIP status would have been a much better attention getter. The clan hates me and attacks me everyday for not dealing with the way they play. I get flags and don't work the kills. I would appreciate another chance, I'm not a cheater.

 

[bfplayer-Chat]

Appeal denied due to inactivity.

Please allow for my response, just getting over COVID.

 

[bfplayer-Chat]

I apologize for any eye bleed, however, you gave me a few paragraphs to answer for and it won't count as a defense if I say "I don't cheat" when someone else said I do... It ends up being a 'he said, she said discussion'. Who is my accuser?

I have always conceded this is your server to admin and personally feel the (admin mention of) "but other reasons may be used if you're an exceptionally problematic player disrupting gameplay" .. this statement carries with it for my ban - no real evidence of "disrupting gameplay". The only disruption is during the game the clan members complain due to the fact I have so many points - they have worked hard to find reason why none of their members can catch me and continually elude to me cheating???. I mentioned several of their, 'within game' accusations above. I contend, it's within the "CAP" of objectives that gets my points and not the "KILL" nor the "MOVE". I work for caps to help my team win and a win by caps is much easier than a win by kills, I feel caps to be hard to prove disruptive as that is the point of the game. Must agree however, it can be considered "problematic" for the losing team.

As admin also stated, "We have an automatic team balancing and squad scrambling system that does this job for you" --- balance doesn't take into account the teams who don't cap, or don't understand capping. It seams 'all' understand the k/d and killing, which is cool, however 100 kill points vs 400 cap points is my version - as read on opening screen - Get Objectives. Due to the flaw in the 'automatic team balancing' function, the assist can't help the losing team due to caps many times.

I've seen, for this ban there are no complaints in the forums and as admin stated " I am inclined to think that this punishment may be a bit too severe since there were no warnings or messages from our staff" and also stated by admin, "Since you haven't caused issues in other ways on the server...." Hence, the 'moving' is the issue?? I ask 'can I face my accuser' as admin certainly had to work to find 'reason' and do understand admin won't negate an admin call if the initial call can be proven. Why no evidence in forums? Why is the 'move' command wrong, and if it is a perk given by Banzore, why can it be used as a ban tool with no other explanation.

From the outside looking in, I can't see a stat on Banzore for my 'cap' numbers - I had to use the other server for some stats as you did, however, my cap numbers here on BZ11 is what has caused my placing on BZ11 - certainly not K/D. The wins didn't put me within my placing there, simple math will show, it had to be the caps. If you subtract all "move" command wins from overall score, my place is still well where it lies. The assist is another used command used by me a lot, but another defense. Admin mentioned used more than move by me, it is not mentioned in the ban?

Admin mentioned an overall stat of 4000 hours, that is shown on another stat server, however, for BZ11, only 2113 hours. How many caps have been recorded on BZ11? -- 400 points for each cap, 100 for neutralizing and multiples in between for defense. CAP stat is not a part of the public facing stats. The wins didn't get me to my place on BZ11, the caps did and my point about kills certainly eludes to the fact I don't kill simply for the points for the K/D. I don't move for the points, I move to get caps which are not getting done when the K/D stat padders are not getting the job done for the win. ---

Admin mentioned, " but some commands are often abused for stat padding" - never used for stat padding by me. When I've used the commands, it was never for stat padding. Stat padding is another defense. However, when I clearly see a team playing grab azz on C for kills "Clearly a K/D Stat padding move", I work harder to ensure the flags are capped for the team win. Why do chopper pilots love BZ11 the C objective not to be downed ---- they can be, what I consider to be stat pad kills up there. Yes, I suppose caps are a version of stat padding, caps is not the ban - guilty as charged when it comes to caps, but the "move" command is not used for stat padding by me - I can say no, she can say yes, however it is not needed. My average score per game is well over the score attained by the 'move' command.

Hence, please remove the ban based on use of the move command as all I can really see is a ban based on a 'privilege' given by Banzore for donating to Banzore, but causing a ban by being used more than should be? Please let me know how often is too often, again there is no rules about it, but I've been banned for using it? A time frame??? Games at times take hours, and at times take minutes. Take it away, but I agree the current punishment is too severe as there were no warnings against using the "move" command. I didn't know it was a 'point' adding tool until the clan in question started pointing it out -- they never pointed out the flags I capped once I moved. Capping flags was my reason for the move. Contrary to a 'specific clans' belief.

 

[RogaineFoam]

I will be giving this further consideration. I will let you know the verdict within 48 hours.

 

[neonardo1]

https://banzore.com/forums/threads/free-bfplayer100-3.14546/#post-105205 seems like the most fair approach I can think of.

 

[bfplayer-Chat]

neonardo1, all due respect, I did not do what was stated within the ban text and why would it be important to someone who does not have allegiance or loyalty to the major clan who plays within BZ11 to negate my ability to continue to be number 1 on that server by capping flags?

Take the move, show how the move did put me on as number 1 and I'll shut up and color. (I know you've the ability to make that happen anyway) It was objective caps, the VIP command did not put me at number 1, I was there before I started using the command. What was my ranking the day I started using the command?? Why would I use it for the pittance of points compared to my overall game scores.

I learned the command, which had been available to me from the first time I donated to banzore, only after the CLAN showed they do it regularly. I learned from them !assist doesn't always work. And once I saw the command used to move a clan member to the other team, I had to wonder 'WTF'.. Now I know.

 

[bfplayer-Chat]

https://banzore.com/forums/threads/free-bfplayer100-3.14546/#post-105205 seems like the most fair approach I can think of.

Are you my accuser? Do you play on bz11?

 

[-bZ-AngrySalsa]

I'll bump in just because I have a funny story related to your post. I tried the "Are you my accuser?" approach to a red light camera ticket, and of course it didn't work. Just made me giggle that you would do that here.
But we aren't the US Justice system, we are a private server community. Doesn't need to be specific accuser(s). We reserve the right to let people play on our servers. Plain and simple, Rogaine spelled it out for you quite simply, and rather fairly said he would get back to you.
We appreciate your patience!

 

[bfplayer-Chat]

I'll bump in just because I have a funny story related to your post. I tried the "Are you my accuser?" approach to a red light camera ticket, and of course it didn't work. Just made me giggle that you would do that here.
But we aren't the US Justice system, we are a private server community. Doesn't need to be specific accuser(s). We reserve the right to let people play on our servers. Plain and simple, Rogaine spelled it out for you quite simply, and rather fairly said he would get back to you.
We appreciate your patience!

-bZ-AngrySalsa - Thanks very much for that. My comment was not for or to Rogaine -- I apologize if it appeared so. I tried to quote what I was addressing and thought it was understood I was replying to another. Not once was the response from Rogaine taken as disrespectful to me and I appreciate that.

It appears the right reserved to let people play on your servers does get much support, of which I was attempting to help in my small way and found that the possibility of 'screwing up' can happen, intended so or not. I still do not feel I 'screwed up'.. I enjoy the servers, and some good ragging now and again is helpful for my development as I see admins share such many times during 'complaints'.

I do realize it makes no real difference (accuser known or not) for my defense, here for sure. I am simply attempting to provide for my self defense to comments made within 'MY' appeal of which, some I felt were uncalled for and disrespectful to me - a bit above helpful for development. The attack on me and my gameplay: "He's quite horrible statistically", to go along with other comments, leads me to believe the accuser feels to be a much more "skilled" player on bz11 than I and I would like to compare and learn.

Thanks again -bZ-AngrySalsa. I appreciate the anecdote and will remember not to use it if ever given a ticket for the red light camera catch. However, statements made to a bfplayer supporter within another forum: "Only because he swaps teams for wins and to ride the coat tails of skilled players." Are exact statements made by clan members I have spoken about, but not mentioned name of yet here. Those statements were never made in the forums as a complaint about me hence I must 'ASSUME' are made by a player on bz11 - the ban reason did not state such. All coincidence?

 

[-bZ-AngrySalsa]

Not Coincidence, Data does not lie. Same reason I didn't get out of my red light ticket. You were abusing the system. In either case, patience here will the best move.

 

[BigBadBagOfSwag]

You’ve also been told that you’ll be unbanned.
Give us time to adjust our internal systems to exclude you from the top players leaderboard, neonardo goes great lengths to provide / update the backend to the servers. That being said, the decision is final regarding the terms of your coming unban.

Your novel length responses only add fuel to the raging fire. Repeating yourself will not force our hand any faster.

 

[bfplayer-Chat]

As you mentioned the decision is final regarding the terms, what are those terms? Did the entire 'staff' agree to those terms, or majority thereof? My intent is certainly not to repeat myself here. It has been weeks since the suggested terms, which was a suggestion made and not agreed to.

Not intending to fan the flames of anyone's fire, am surprised anyone @ banzore, especially one of the 'banzore staff', is on fire about this. Unless they are players on bz11 and can't move up to the number 1 spot until the mighty neonardo can update the backend to the servers - if that is the case, my defense has been lost before it even started. Who would be taking it personal enough to be fired up about it? It's only a game. Lots of words don't necessarily mean fire.

As a VIP supporter of banzore bz11, up until November, been playing very regularly since I started spring 2021, but this is the longest streak I've not been on. Was suddenly blindsided by a ban which had no warning, as stated by one of the highly respected admins who said above, " I am inclined to think that this punishment may be a bit too severe since there were no warnings or messages from our staff to you about this issue".

Again, thank you for your considerations.

 

[bfplayer-Chat]

You’ve also been told that you’ll be unbanned.
Give us time to adjust our internal systems to exclude you from the top players leaderboard, neonardo goes great lengths to provide / update the backend to the servers. That being said, the decision is final regarding the terms of your coming unban.

Your novel length responses only add fuel to the raging fire. Repeating yourself will not force our hand any faster.

I mean absolutely no disrespect and certainly don't mean to repeat anything adding to the eyebleeds.

However, you had mentioned within the VIP/PERK chat: " As long as you follow our rules, you should be good. You'll know if you're doing something we don't allow and you'll be given a chance to correct it."

I was not given a chance in this case and of course the admins rule here so I get what I get from the decisions. In this case, I'm guessing no one knew this might be a thing to disallow - common sense is really not common in this case. I do apologize my common sense is not that of the players I played against.

 

[bfplayer-Chat]

.