Cheating in BF4 - An Overview

[xBlastFTPastx]

So for example can someone who knows more about this than me (which is probably lots of people here) explain why this footage warrants a ban:

But this doesn't?:

First one is a 140 account with thousands of hours getting lucky on Locker and the second is a new Korean account with 250 hours but "it's cool bro it's an alt" is an ok excuse? I'm not defending any of these players (and all cheaters should burn in hell), but I really don't see much difference in the game-play tbh.

 

[Sabretooth-Ninja]

So for example can someone who knows more about this than me (which is probably lots of people here) explain why this footage warrants a ban:

But this doesn't?:

First one is a 140 account with thousands of hours getting lucky on Locker and the second is a new Korean account with 250 hours but "it's cool bro it's an alt" is an ok excuse? I'm not defending any of these players (and all cheaters should burn in hell), but I really don't see much difference in the game-play tbh.

I also watched the Cynicism vid and couldnt see anything really. Noy sure where the irrefutable evidence is. To me the 326xdk clip is cut and dry.

 

[OKNewPlan]

So for example can someone who knows more about this than me (which is probably lots of people here) explain why this footage warrants a ban:

But this doesn't?:

First one is a 140 account with thousands of hours getting lucky on Locker and the second is a new Korean account with 250 hours but "it's cool bro it's an alt" is an ok excuse? I'm not defending any of these players (and all cheaters should burn in hell), but I really don't see much difference in the game-play tbh.

Good example. I guess it is up to whoever is reviewing the claim and make the judgment call even though some of these occurrences are blind to the human eye? Maybe there's traffic on the server side that can be a flag? Either way, an impossible job to get 100% correct.

Waldo Vision is looking for contributors and games to start rolling out with. The contributions they are asking for is a depository of videos to train their model and then when product deployment happens it is already trained for that game. Battlefield Agency would be a perfect partner for this as they have a library of recorded videos at their disposal and, upon deployment, it would give more accurate results while no longer require them to manually review every cheating submission.

@neonardo1 @-bZ-AngrySalsa maybe something to consider for the future of Battlefield Agency?

 

[-bZ-LongTrang1]

At work I've been using a government AI to identify users on a public forum who use multiple accounts to give the false impression of a chorus of individuals (aka "trolls").

The AI has done an awesome job of identifying unique phrases, unique word sequences, and it's also identified unique vocabularies.

Vocabulary choices are exceptional for identifying people and the larger the sample the better the AI gets on accurately identifying people.

So far it's identified four individuals across multiple accounts with better than 98% confidence. AND it went further and traced those four people back to a Los Angeles public relations firm based on their IRL posts on Twitter, LinkedIn, and elsewhere. We've banned those accounts and the LA PR firm and we will use the model to ID these people should they come back as retreads.

I expect that this same kind of thing can be used to identify specific users on games regardless of their IP address, account name, or etc. simply by identifying their game preferences, game play, and patterns within the game.

 

[RipeSnipe]

cynicism_1 was judged clear by bf4db, through the same video.
I don't see evidence of cheating in his video either. I've watched some of my own clips that I could definitely argue cheats on, if you don't take into consideration common angles and muscle memory of those angles. along with general game sense such as "friend just died over there, enemy probably rerouting this way aaaaaand there he is" etc

the anti cheat services have over turned their own judgements from time to time when bias or lesser experienced moderators made poor decisions.

please point out areas of interest in the 326 video and I will break each one down because I have no life and wish to educate, not berate.

 

[Sabretooth-Ninja]

please point out areas of interest in the 326 video and I will break each one down because I have no life and wish to educate, not berate.

When I get home I will point out a couple moments that seem suspicious or questionable to me.

 

[OKNewPlan]

You could start with point 1 of my original post. Why would any experienced player run into the D flag like he did, not check his corners, and still manage to know where everyone was without ESP? This is pretty damn lucky and really amateurish for someone "with over 60,000 kills with just the ace 23 alone" as you put it.

Clip located here: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxAWlufEpjjsLl1Bxa9mWNUBSDoySpv0vD

1) First, here is a prime example of ESP being used. The player is obviously experienced but yet runs right into the D flag without checking his corners because he/she knows no one is there. Instead they run straight for where he/she knows the enemies are:​

[clip located here: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxAWlufEpjjsLl1Bxa9mWNUBSDoySpv0vD]​

 

[UnoDosi]

Man, you are committed. he get your tags or something? Maybe kill you with the defibs?

 

[OKNewPlan]

Man, you are committed. he get your tags or something? Maybe kill you with the defibs?

I don't think I've ever seen this player in game before, this is the example we're all using for the overall topic. Please keep up.

 

[UnoDosi]

 

[The0bamessiah]

Using AI for detecting cheating is a bad idea. In fact, using AI for anything to estimate, judge, replicate, imitate, or otherwise evaluate human behavior is a bad idea. Machines are not capable of understanding the nuances of the human experience no matter how much we try to explain it to them. Furthermore, machines can not be interrogated or reasoned with : they see things only in numbers and equations, facts and logic when many things within our world are illogical and incapable of being explained in such cut-and-dry, black-and-white duality. The only machine capable of adequately and fairly judging the actions of man is man himself.

Programmers seem to me to be slowly becoming the mad scientists of today. Instead of lab coats and bubbling elixirs they are accompanied by turtle-necks and mechanical keyboards. They hurl themselves and their work forward in the name of "scientific progress" without any regard for the possible consequences of these actions. Too few people have understood the metaphor of Frankenstein. Unfortunately for us this lack of understanding may very well lead to the further enslavement of man to his technology.

I believe this is a result of the doctrinal shift much of society has taken with regard to its spiritual beliefs. It's a cruel irony where the descendant of reason and the Age of Enlightenment will lead us right back to where we started : a fanatical adherence to a dogma without any understanding of it and the lionization of its clergy as infallible arbiters of truth. History is doomed to repeat itself and scientism is merely another expression of man's hubris.

 

[RipeSnipe]

You could start with point 1 of my original post. Why would any experienced player run into the D flag like he did, not check his corners, and still manage to know where everyone was without ESP? This is pretty damn lucky and really amateurish for someone "with over 60,000 kills with just the ace 23 alone" as you put it.

Clip located here: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxAWlufEpjjsLl1Bxa9mWNUBSDoySpv0vD

@TheGaussianMan @TheTexasShrimp @Lamp @Popcots can all attest, this is super normal for an experienced player. I don't bother to stare at the D overlook building as they have a great height advantage and will kill you easy if you slow down for them. looking towards Charlie through market is useless because it's a long angle and again less time spent in the open is less time they have to shoot you. it's not necessary to look to the right (US Spawn) because there is no direct spawn here I.E. very rare enemy routing this way. dead ahead you'll have a overwatch DMR asshole in the 2nd floor of the bus occasionally but you would see him with this path, and anybody holding the direct front from behind a car is going to kill you regardless because of the window angles from the cars.

long story short I run dead into D all the time in this exact fashion. I'm usually coming from C side more directly but if I just cleared E I would have followed this route pretty identically. he also does not track and kill the enemy inside of D until he is clearly visible, which he should have waited and killed from cover instead of jumping on top of the planter. as far as the two guys who kill him from parlor, he is prefiring the most common spot to hold in that location. based on the rate at which the flag is being captured you should know there are at least 2 enemies holding D with you at that moment.

any counter arguments please post up I'm sure you'll have more questions.

 

[RipeSnipe]

Source: 1600 hours on bz2 = almost 500 hours on this single map alone.

here's me "cheating" on pearl

and more

 

[UnoDosi]

Using AI for detecting cheating is a bad idea. In fact, using AI for anything to estimate, judge, replicate, imitate, or otherwise evaluate human behavior is a bad idea. Machines are not capable of understanding the nuances of the human experience no matter how much we try to explain it to them. Furthermore, machines can not be interrogated or reasoned with : they see things only in numbers and equations, facts and logic when many things within our world are illogical and incapable of being explained in such cut-and-dry, black-and-white duality. The only machine capable of adequately and fairly judging the actions of man is man himself.

Programmers seem to me to be slowly becoming the mad scientists of today. Instead of lab coats and bubbling elixirs they are accompanied by turtle-necks and mechanical keyboards. They hurl themselves and their work forward in the name of "scientific progress" without any regard for the possible consequences of these actions. Too few people have understood the metaphor of Frankenstein. Unfortunately for us this lack of understanding may very well lead to the further enslavement of man to his technology.

I believe this is a result of the doctrinal shift much of society has taken with regard to its spiritual beliefs. It's a cruel irony where the descendant of reason and the Age of Enlightenment will lead us right back to where we started : a fanatical adherence to a dogma without any understanding of it and the lionization of its clergy as infallible arbiters of truth. History is doomed to repeat itself and scientism is merely another expression of man's hubris.

It is and has been human nature for us to hurl ourselves at the newest and most mis-understood technologies as they rise up. Look at all the wild stuff that took place during the dawn of nuclear, electricity, steam even and the industrial revolution. I agree that many people, companies, and organizations dive too quickly into AI without studying or trying to outline/understand the potential dangerous limits of creating artificial intelligence.

I myself find it to be worrying that we have seemingly embraced AI so rapidly, especially to the layman, with little disregard to either have checks on it or else. (ChatGPT will happily spew intelligent sounding baloney that unless you know the subject will look right. )

That said, if you are going to blame it on society moving away from a theological foundation then one only needs to look at how more and less secular countries compare in terms of development, quality of life, etc. Europe vs middle east for example.

Humans have and always will be reckless, to blame it on a divergence from religious, if that is what you are doing is... silly. Yes religion has played a founding role in modern societies for centuries, millennia even. Yet, in my opinion, - the net positive functions of religion in forming and maintaining social circles, an orderly society with a quasi-police function has diminished, if not become more irrelevant. Our societies become more connected, observant, and those functions (social circle formation, social policing/law and order) become handled by different, more modern approaches and methods today.

Source: Wrote a paper about ethics, bioethical theory and religion this past year and it covered this.

but more on topic point: In my uneducated opinion on AI though, I think AI will be useful as a tool to augment and detect but must not be used as an absolute indicator. think of a warning that goes " suspicious activity detected, human review necessary" vs "confirmed hacker, banned." approach.

 

[Mobius.jpeg]

The current implementation of anticheat in BF4 works well enough and is likely not going to be replaced anytime soon.

 

[OKNewPlan]

Source: 1600 hours on bz2 = almost 500 hours on this single map alone.

But yet here you are checking your corners at the D flag bus station like I said....
So we're saying the same thing then, good.

here's me "cheating" on pearl

This one is just a flex with no reference to the subject matter lol. Pretty cool tho!

Maybe I misunderstood what I was expecting but we are all aware of how this game works. We all analyze the map and sometimes get lucky with our positioning. We all get it I promise you.

It's not 2014 anymore, the technology and the culture has changed.

 

[RipeSnipe]

But yet here you are checking your corners at the D flag bus station like I said....
So we're saying the same thing then, good.


This one is just a flex with no reference to the subject matter lol. Pretty cool tho!

Maybe I misunderstood what I was expecting but we are all aware of how this game works. We all analyze the map and sometimes get lucky with our positioning. We all get it I promise you.

It's not 2014 anymore, the technology and the culture has changed.

I ran past the overlook building just like your guy did, and didn't aim down the bus alley at all. when I entered long hall I didn't check left corner at all @0:32

@0:52 I don't even look inside the building I just "magically" know a guy is coming around the outside of the building

I didn't just upload those last night to show examples of the exact same scenario bud. but I can and will out of spite since you're being dense

 

[RipeSnipe]

my entire response to you questioning the 18 second clip was the approach into D not once you're in there. and my approach to D was also direct with no glancing towards D overlook building, didn't care about bus alley at all, and didn't bother checking market near C just like the 18 second clip guy

 

[OKNewPlan]

Sorry @RipeSnipe I'm not trying to make you mad and I appreciate you uploading those vids. I'm just trying to be real about a real situation.
Not gonna lie though, to me your videos do reiterate my findings.

If I came across as a real dickwad then I apologize, wasn't my intention.

 

[RipeSnipe]

asshole