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Cheating in BF4 - An Overview
- Thread starter OKNewPlan
- Start date
RipeSnipe
-bZ- Member
detecting cheaters is extremely nuanced and opinionated so I'm probably just getting butthurt for no reason. I pride myself in being one of the better regulars who detects and reports real cheaters.
the problem is anybody who wants to hide their cheats and is at all a decent bf4 player can hide it very well. there is such a fine line between a talented and aware player vs a closeted esp user.
the problem is anybody who wants to hide their cheats and is at all a decent bf4 player can hide it very well. there is such a fine line between a talented and aware player vs a closeted esp user.
RipeSnipe
-bZ- Member
alternate accounts of cheaters are easy to ban, since they have already been noticed cheating and the links between accounts are fairly easy to detect by the experienced anti cheat moderators.
so yes it's something they do a lot but also something that is noticed easily.
experienced players use alt accounts because they are bored and want to unlock everything again, or do not want to be recognized by their main account anymore for either targeting reasons or they like making people upset at a level 22 absolutely shitting on everybody.
I mean yeah, that is basically the entire point of this post isn't it?
I think you misunderstood me. I am not saying that society needs to return to the dogmatic fundamentalism of Christianity, or that it should aspire to be more like the Islamic societies in the Middle East. Instead I am saying that it already has, only instead of crucifixes and pontiffs it has beakers and professors as its respective holy symbols and figures. Many people today are so militantly anti-religion that they themselves have formed a new religion in the process. Instead of asking questions they demand answers. Along they way they have lost the point of the Enlightenment : to inquire about the unknown, not to deny its existence.
Does anyone ever wonder, if we (all in this thread) would have the same conversation path if we were in person talking about this?
How did we get here haha
That's what I'm wondering. Wtf does that have to do with regurgitating a video about a silly "AI anticheat"
Come for the cheat discussion; stay for the epistemological arguments
I write much better than I speak so probably not.
You know, while I certainly played a role in steering this thread off course with my initial response to The0bamessiah the "How the F**k did we get here* had me rolling.
Anyways, uhh... I think AI can be helpful for detection in the same way that CS:GO has the player review function by trusted community members. They don't have "ban authority" but merely recommend it be moved up for further final review.
My fear of AI cheat review is not entirely it's accuracy or inaccuracy, we can only speculate on how good or bad it may be. my fear comes from the secondary effects of "please appeal if you think this is incorrect" which may only be a trigger to send an automated message of "Your appeal is denied."
Edit: If they are better than me, they are a cheater. If they are worse than me, they should uninstall.
Anyways, uhh... I think AI can be helpful for detection in the same way that CS:GO has the player review function by trusted community members. They don't have "ban authority" but merely recommend it be moved up for further final review.
My fear of AI cheat review is not entirely it's accuracy or inaccuracy, we can only speculate on how good or bad it may be. my fear comes from the secondary effects of "please appeal if you think this is incorrect" which may only be a trigger to send an automated message of "Your appeal is denied."
Edit: If they are better than me, they are a cheater. If they are worse than me, they should uninstall.
1) I dont play any softcore, so the spotting mechanics and visible doritos in that mode are new to me. At the beginning, 00:04, he turns his head just so towards the wood shack and the dorito pops up. The enemy is tucked away, no way a team mate spotted him. 326 just knew to look towards there (for his auto spot hack to do what it does?) and, without any rhyme or reason, popped in the shack to the kill the guy. I'm not the greatest player in the world, but I don't go checking shacks like that unless I have a reason to, like I saw the go in, or I see combustive gasses blowing out through a crack somewhere.
2) 00:44 his kill against Shrumgus looks like it highlights the aim assist. Tell me if he just hit a trailing hit box with a side order of lag.
3) 00:50 super sus. Shooting at ladder and balcony underside without ever seeing an enemy there. Follows the enemy up the ladder without ever seeing him, knows there's a second enemy on the ladder. I prob would have shot the first and ran unless something told me (gameplay evidence or "otherwise") that there was a second enemy there. Not too often you see a daisy chain on a ladder, so I dont think this is condition gameplay.
4) Maybe I'm nitpicking on this one, but since you asked. I don't know what resolution and screen size dude is playing at, but I couldnt see those enemies in C hallway in the video. He knew to shoot there with his teammate in the line of fire. Again, I dont understand softcore gameplay, so maybe this is the META, but shooting into the void with your battle buddy next to your rounds I think is sus.
5) 1:44 I gotta side with Plan and Blast here. I would never run into D like that unless I knew exactly where the enemy was. He even ADSed into an obstacle (but where the enemy was) and immediately dropped ADS to jump and re-aim. I would have kept aiming and sidestepped the obstacle to preserve my accuracy.
6) 1:55 he knew those guys were in that specific corner. He slices no pies. He just points into a doorways and knows where to shoot. I understand map regularity (learning hot zones and lanes on a map), but the only info that map regularity can provide here is that there will be guys in that room. Cannot know which corner they'll be hiding in. His point of aim is also always at upper chest and head level. Not once does he charge in and accidently aim at feet or something as he scans.
7) 2:00 Again I dont know softcore gameplay. Are people just trigger down at all times? I would have died here, not knowing enemy is there and being obstructed by friendly.
8) 2:12 he turns to check his right side way to late to be reasonable. He doesnt clear right to cross the beam, he "clears right" AFTER CROSSING THE BEAM (read: tracking enemies through building) and knows where the guy is on ground level. This is level 3 and 9 total kills gameplay, not years and years of expertise.
9) 2:27 he knew where all those guys were. he is bee-lining for them, clearing no corners.
And all that being said, dude just doesnt seem to miss.
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Back in the day we used to call that style of gameplay "Run-n-Gun".
No thinking, no strategy, just mindlessly keep firing at everything and everyone knowing that 'friendly-fire off' will stop you from getting banned. Oh yeah, and bunny-hop like a madman even though that shit got patched way back in BF2.
That analysis is spot-on. Even re-watching it I missed some things that you mentioned. But man that video you editted is *chefs kiss* lmao kudos to you sir!
He was using the RAWR and had just killed someone, I dont play normal mode either so I have no idea but maybe that is the reason?
RipeSnipe
-bZ- Member
@0:04 rawr is in play, this shack is one of MANY common spots to kill the rawr user in, ask any bz2 regular. as far as the dorito that looks like proximity dorito to me. is hardcore players get this on beacons that are close to us.
@0:44 was definitely just spectator lag in my experience
@0:50 you can see his feet and hear him climbing at least I can
not going to regurgitate what I already said about D, agree to disagree
@2:00 Im going to assume proximity dorito again for him, does look sus otherwise
@2:12 could be him looking through walls if you meant him looking towards B at the end of the red arch
@2:27 they have E, which means they are spawning in those rooms with him
he isn't a level 2 with 9 kills, his man account has over 3,000 hours. if I'm correct about his linked accounts.
While I'm not as imbedded into this discussion I feel like a lot of "cheater reviewers" forget that people do random things in game... "He looked to the right just as the guy was behind the wall!" does nobody ever turn and look at places they may A. expect? or even B. just randomly? People aren't robots, they don't have prepredicted moves that would only change if they have cheats.
I'll be honest, A lot of times when people point out cheaters as doing something weird I somewhat relate. I'm not the best player but when an "illogical move" is seen I often think " I mean.. I've done that... I've looked there."
I think that unless you can present a pattern of "coincidences" that the player happened to look at a weird place at the right time.. it is likely just players being human.
"well that was a dumb move not to look left but instantly turn right at the enemy!". well it was a dumb move but they aren't required to look left.
a funny anecdote is: Some chess masters have said that inexperienced players can sometimes be more difficult than more experienced peers simply because they cannot predict the moves the player will make. An experienced chess player would have a plan that you can discern where as the inexperienced player makes moves sometimes seemingly at random and are unexpected even if "dumb".
I'll be honest, A lot of times when people point out cheaters as doing something weird I somewhat relate. I'm not the best player but when an "illogical move" is seen I often think " I mean.. I've done that... I've looked there."
I think that unless you can present a pattern of "coincidences" that the player happened to look at a weird place at the right time.. it is likely just players being human.
"well that was a dumb move not to look left but instantly turn right at the enemy!". well it was a dumb move but they aren't required to look left.
a funny anecdote is: Some chess masters have said that inexperienced players can sometimes be more difficult than more experienced peers simply because they cannot predict the moves the player will make. An experienced chess player would have a plan that you can discern where as the inexperienced player makes moves sometimes seemingly at random and are unexpected even if "dumb".
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That's how I play chess. "Oh, the knight can go in THIS shape of an L too? Well let's do that!" Also how I play most video games.